Curse

DarklingKiller · Aug 20, 2008, 07:27 AM // 07:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phineas

I think, since the nerf, that GW has lost a little of its soul.

I stand in ToA now and it just astounds me how rude people are if someone uses the 'U' word and it looks increasingly hard for people to just PuG as they wish. Permas and Terras are all the rage and even if you want to try and play one of those not that many people seem eager to pass on a build they probably swiped from here or wiki in the first place.

In my view, it's not a happy place.

Same for DoA now. It's void of people and banter. Yet for all of this, there will be several people thinking 'Good, gtfo, noob' for those that want to try to play post-Ursan but have yet to experience playing in such a fashion. PuGs are not a friendly way to learn as failure is not acceptable anymore.

Man, I gotta find me a guild...

Less QQ more pew pew

JoeKnowMo · Aug 20, 2008, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

This is what I hear when I play a Paragon in the rare PUG groups that are desperate enough to take a Paragon, even when my 85% damage reduction is what's keeping them alive. And it very much pisses me off, especially when I see the monk cast Orison of Healing or Healing Breeze.

I monked a Duncan run recently and as soon as we added an imbagon, I said, "No tank plz." And I gave credit to the 'gon too.

You should pug with me. It's like being hopped up on prozac.

the_jos · Aug 20, 2008, 10:07 AM // 10:07

I would to add something I experienced yesterday.

Me and a guildie just started a vanquish and got word that some other player and his friend wanted to do that same vanquish. So we went back to get them.
The moment my guildie pinged his Mo/X bar with Ursan on it one of the two started 'I don't want to play with an ursan'. And I was told to change my hybrid monk bar which was set for that specific area to a ZB bar.
Sure, I'll change my build even if it's less effective. And the rest of the team was not set yet so no way to see what kind of skills would be missing due to the change.
In the end my guildie and me went in with the two of us and some heroes since my guildie didn't want to change his ursan build (which in my opinion is a choice when players don't ask for a specific profession or role when starting the team).

I don't mind changing my builds but what I don't like is people dictating builds.
At least not in a team consisting of 'random' professions, either PUG or teaming with guildies/allies.

If you ask for anyone to join on a vanquish and the first to show is a monk but wants to run ursan you can always try to agree on him changing when several others have joined. It's easy, you asked for someone to team up with, not for a specific profession or role. Else that ursan playing guy/girl would not have joined. For whatever you know (s)he only wants to play smiter which is a valid monk role and you have the same kind of problem.

The same with me and my hybrid monk build.
If there is a full team I or someone with team-build knowledge can determine if my current build needs to be changed according to the skills other players have brought.
If I am the first monk on a 'random' team there is no way to tell if my build is good or bad except when there are clear signs like wrong skill synergy or bad energy management.

There are some exceptions.
I might want to run a very specific team. In that case I will dictate a team build. Bring profession X with build Y, else you don't have to join.
That's the kind of 'elitism' I do understand. At least, in organised teams.
But the kind of elitism I encounter more on the PvE side seems to be a sign of ignorance more then a sign of wanting to run the best team possible.

cataphract · Aug 20, 2008, 11:50 AM // 11:50

IMHO, you two brought it upon yourselves. I mean, two monks letting two pugs dictate what build to run and whine about your builds, WTF?

glacialphoenix · Aug 20, 2008, 11:59 AM // 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

IMHO, you two brought it upon yourselves. I mean, two monks letting two pugs dictate what build to run and whine about your builds, WTF?

He didn't, did he? He said that the two of them did it with heroes. To which I say, good on you.

Some PUGs are going to whine about your build no matter what you do, so the best option is to kick 'em and do it yourself.

Kusandaa · Aug 20, 2008, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by glacialphoenix

He didn't, did he? He said that the two of them did it with heroes. To which I say, good on you.

Some PUGs are going to whine about your build no matter what you do, so the best option is to kick 'em and do it yourself.

I thought the same really. They took the heroes instead of the 2 guys they were gonna team up with.

And I agree to that. If people are gonna go nuts over my build and tell me to run something else, give me a decent reason else I'm not switching. Our guild kicked more than one PUG because they wanted another guy kicked for running an uncommon but completely valid build.

It's annoying that mob mentality is present on a game made to avoid it...

Shursh · Aug 20, 2008, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

This is what I hear when I play a Paragon in the rare PUG groups that are desperate enough to take a Paragon, even when my 85% damage reduction is what's keeping them alive. And it very much pisses me off, especially when I see the monk cast Orison of Healing or Healing Breeze.

DUDE...that happened to me too! i was quite upset about it and decided that the next group we aggroed, i'd just "forget" to recast SY/TNTF.

"NOOB MONKZ!" hahahahaha

the_jos · Aug 20, 2008, 04:35 PM // 16:35

We took heroes indeed and finished easily with a Ursan protection monk and my hybrid.

The thing I find most disappointing is that people forgot how Guild Wars is a game, ment to have some fun and spend some time.

Let's take worst case scenario about me and my guildie vs the two randoms.
They can't really determine the value of my hybrid build (tells me something about you) and the value of the build my guildie uses (it's an odd build indeed but it works).
Since they do trust their builds they could just ask if they could load the heroes to complete the team. Giving them 6 builds and professions which they control. That should be more than enough to finish most vanquishes if the builds of me and my guildie are on par with those of some hench.
Then they asked me to change my build to a 'trusted' build, which I also don't mind doing. That's seven builds they could control.
Meaning they have one build they don't control and they know the build. It's either Ursan when in form or full protection outside form.

I'm always very willing to adapt to what others think is best even if I disagree. I can and will have fun playing ZB as much as my own builds.
Even if it makes things less efficient, I already decided to be less efficient by agreeing to team up with randoms. Some more inefficiency doesn't really matter then...
But someone being stubborn about someone else playing ursan just because it's ursan is just beyond stupid.

Snow Bunny · Aug 20, 2008, 05:00 PM // 17:00

I for one find pug mentalities humorous. The FoW build we use (shamelessly stolen from SMS <3<3<3<3) is structured on a Paragon, Assassin, Dervs, and Ritualist.

OH SORRY GUYS FORGOT THEY'RE USELESS.

R.Shayne · Aug 20, 2008, 05:01 PM // 17:01

I am so glad I have a second account for places like UW and FoW. I still try to PuG in some low level areas just hoping to make friends to replace friends that no longer play but I am sticking with Henchmen / Hero in hard areas, they never try to tell me what build I should be running.

I got a question, am I the only one that has builds / skills that just work for me? HB monk works for me, Word of Healing Monk Works for me, Glimmer Monk does not work for me. I have the same thing with all professions in that some skills work for me and some just feel like I am fighting the skill too much to achieve my goal. I have seen this with other people too, I had one friend that never could get A/Me shadow form echo down but could echo nuke like no one I have ever seen.

What I am wondering is how could someone tell me what to run since they don't know how I play the game. If it is not a farming pug with certain requirements (and even them I may change it) I am taking what I want, that is the one thing I disliked about ursan, I want my build not ANet's build.

glacialphoenix · Aug 20, 2008, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.Shayne

I got a question, am I the only one that has builds / skills that just work for me? HB monk works for me, Word of Healing Monk Works for me, Glimmer Monk does not work for me.

No, you're not. It's one of the reasons why I ended up not wanting to monk for ursans - HB monk is actually one of the builds I feel most uncomfortable with. I can run it, but not nearly as well as I think I can run WoH. I think it's playstyle (and also the fact that everytime I play HB monk, I keep wondering where Prot Spirit went to).

the_jos · Aug 20, 2008, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

The FoW build we use (shamelessly stolen from SMS <3<3<3<3) is structured on a Paragon, Assassin, Dervs, and Ritualist.

But would that be a team build a PUG could run?
I've seen some very impressive builds and strategies in the past but those were hardly ever usable outside very organised teams.

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.Shayne

I got a question, am I the only one that has builds / skills that just work for me? HB monk works for me, Word of Healing Monk Works for me, Glimmer Monk does not work for me. I have the same thing with all professions in that some skills work for me and some just feel like I am fighting the skill too much to achieve my goal. I have seen this with other people too, I had one friend that never could get A/Me shadow form echo down but could echo nuke like no one I have ever seen.

What I am wondering is how could someone tell me what to run since they don't know how I play the game. If it is not a farming pug with certain requirements (and even them I may change it) I am taking what I want, that is the one thing I disliked about ursan, I want my build not ANet's build.

Ok two questions there.
First, are there builds/skills that work just for you?
I doubt that.
Part of it is related to the skills. Some are just better than others in 'generic' builds. Second is how often you play certain builds and skills.
For example, I run two or three monk builds with slight variations most of the time. Recently I added a new build and it took me a while to get used to.
I still don't feel 100% comfortable with it.

Another example, I've played mesmer for ages.
There are (were, have not looked at the recent updates yet) only a few very efficient pure mesmer builds around for PvE.
Then there are a lot of fair builds but not enough reason to wait for a mesmer and not ask some other profession in the team.
I can play a lot of different builds but due to game mechanics those just don't do the job so well as my main builds. Or depend on a specific team build.

The second, how could I tell you what to run?
Well, that depends. If I organize the team I try to keep track of the kind of skills that are added to the team. If there are a few vital ones that are missing and your profession has one of those I might ask you to change build.
Second, it might be that I know the profession better than you do.
Won't happen that often, but it can. Again I might ask to change a skill or even the complete build.
However, in both situations you will get the reason for the change and I'm even willing to argue about it.

That's the situation a guildie of mine encountered a while ago.
She teamed up with someone who asked her to run a warder. And she mainly played fire nuker, so she didn't feel comfortable with it.
However, the guy convinced her and she played the warder build he gave her. And now she knows the value of such a build in specific situations, something she might have never learned when she had only played her favorite role, nuker.

Snow Bunny · Aug 20, 2008, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

But would that be a team build a PUG could run?
I've seen some very impressive builds and strategies in the past but those were hardly ever usable outside very organised teams.

It's difficult to fail FoW with an Imbagon and consumables. You have 6 characters devoted to damage with damage buffs all around, and you have 2 characters on remove-hex duty.

It's a specialized build, but a pug should be able to run it without much difficulty.

Abedeus · Aug 20, 2008, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Quote:

It's a specialized build, but a pug should be able to run it without much difficulty.

If Monk is top-notch and you put monkeys behind Dervishes and Assassin instead of pug players, then yes, it can be ran without much difficulty.

But you are forgetting that 99,99995% of PuG monks are tards that are too dumb to use viable hero builds so they need other Playing under (effects of) Grass so their craptastic build doesn't seem that bad compared to theirs. And that all pugs are stupider than 5 month old monkey on acid, with many mental defects, throwing around his own excrements. Rly.

glacialphoenix · Aug 20, 2008, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Second, it might be that I know the profession better than you do.
Won't happen that often, but it can. Again I might ask to change a skill or even the complete build.
However, in both situations you will get the reason for the change and I'm even willing to argue about it.

As far as I can tell, most people here have no qualms about that. It's good to learn new things, especially if the guy can tell you why the build works. However, many times, the person insisting on the change doesn't - and sometimes, the reason is simply 'it's not wiki!' Which just says that the person is being close-minded.

DarkGanni · Aug 20, 2008, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Gentlemen Let the show begin.....

If you think you have seen it all^

There's still more:

And above^we have the typical "know it all" player you meet in ToA everyday.

Many other horrible things I saw in that group but will avoid them.

I suggested the necro to take enfeebling blood and use it on melees and rangers but the arrogant necro replied with: Insidious parasite works better.

Seeing the eles with meteor shower, advised them to not use it on melees as they easily flee (like talking to a wall).

The warrior as usual goes Obby flesh, not much to say as these are useless.

Monks are still brainwashed with Life bond and life barrier in fow and some of them cast it only when a player is taking damage.

JONO51 · Aug 20, 2008, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkGanni

snip :P

Have seen all that happening. I honestly dont think people look at skill descriptions when you ping, even if they know nothing of the class, so they just say run blah blah blah because they saw it on wiki. As you've shown there, they have a severe hatred of advice :/
(And btw I did a clear with that Rotunda guy and they ran off to random places, went afk without warning, never fought, just hung back waiting for someone to die and triggered the Overlords in burning forest while we were still clearing the hydra's almost causing a wipe. Amazingly, he said that he saved us a lot of time.)

Abedeus · Aug 20, 2008, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Nice screenshot Ganni. Good to see I'm faster with 6 heroes (no tank'n'spank or minion master - I know, stupid) than PuG in 8 players.

BTW: You forgot to delete Ranger's name from skillbar screenshot.

Snow Bunny · Aug 20, 2008, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Ganni, you and I can heroway it tonight. <2 hrs I promiseeee

Trub · Aug 20, 2008, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Ganni, you and I can heroway it tonight. <2 hrs I promiseeee

*COUGH*

Take a Bow Rit for good luck!!(and comic relief)...

oh, yeah...elitist...temples...worshiping..blah,blah.
keep it up folks.